Josh Marshall: Combatting the Liars
TPM Reader AS vents ...
Obama isn't saying the right thing. He should be saying, "Stop lying." Or maybe he should send Biden out to say it. That's probably the best thing.I'm not basing this on some misguided sense that being aggressive is what's required. Rather, I'm basing it on how the MSM works. They report what politicians say. And they don't fact check them. That's the system -- maybe you don't like it. I don't like it either. But it's not changing any time soon.
That's a key point, so I'm going to repeat it. All the broadcast MSM does is report what politicians say. They don't fact check them. Afterwards, they have blowhards sit around in panels and have disingenuous spin-meister discussions about whether or not what was said is playing well with the general public.
But they don't have real journalists who pour over data, or who ask questions, or who talk to economists, or whatever. instead, they have the blowhards on TV. (OK, some of them do have journalists -- but those guys don't dominate the coverage. The blowhards do.)If the Republicans are lying -- and they are -- we have to call them on it. If we don't, no one will. And by "we", I mean our politicians. They have to say, "Stop lying." If they say that, the blowhards will say, "Do people like it when the president calls his opponents liars?" And after that, they'll say, "Is it a lie to say that there will be death panels?"
This is exactly what Kerry did when he got swiftboated. The whole, "This is so stupid, and so insulting, I won't even dignify it with a response," response. It's why he lost. If you don't dignify something with a response, the other side controls the entire
discussion.We know how the MSM works. Tim Russert responded to all of the criticism he got by explaining it, over and over again. "I just let these guys talk. I ask them questions, and I let them talk. The public can judge their responses." I know that sucks, and he should
have done more. But it's not like we don't know what the score is. We have to be realistic about the way things work.
You'd think just as a matter of national pride that Americans would be embarrassed by this:
I happened to be talking to a foreign tourist earlier today while we watched the town hall antics on the ubiquitous airport TV. He said to me, "what kind of people don't want everyone to have health care?"
Now that was embarrassing.
Benen: THEY PROBABLY WOULDN'T TAKE 'YES' FOR AN ANSWER....
Paul Krugman had a very good appearance on MSNBC yesterday, and following on his NYT column, noted that conservative opponents of health care reform are "unappeasable."Benen: QUOTE OF THE DAY...Describing the various objections from the right, Krugman explained, "It's not actually about the end-of-life provisions. It's not about this specific thing in the bill. They're just going to grab onto anything and try to turn it into something awful.... It's not about the substance and that means that you can't actually satisfy the crazies by offering substantive concessions."
What I found especially interesting, though, is what John Harwood added, "I gotta tell you what a White House official told me today: 'Our problem right now is, if we tell some of the Republican opponents in the Senate, 'You can have everything you want in the bill,' they still won't vote for it.'"
That's almost certainly true. Republican lawmakers don't support meaningful health care reform. That's certainly their right, but it's a point that's often overlooked. If White House negotiators were to offer them a compromise today with no public option, no reimbursements for end-of-life counseling, and no taxes on the middle class, Republicans lawmakers will still oppose meaningful health care reform.
The moral of the story: there's no real point in still more negotiations with conservative Republican lawmakers.
We haven't heard quite as much lately from center-right Blue Dog Democrats, but Rep. Mike Ross of Arkansas, the caucus leader on health care, spoke to CNN today about his take on the debate."I know that a lot of members of my party in the House don't want to hear this," said Ross, but "my guess is about 90 percent [of the final bill presented to the White House] will be reflected from what's in the Senate Finance Committee bill."
I see. Six centrists and conservatives from small rural states get together in secret to hammer out an agreement that ignores the majority's policy priorities. The negotiations include exactly zero of the Finance Committee's progressive members, but include one of the Senate's most conservative members and another Republican who doesn't want to admit negotiations are even happening. Why, with a Democratic president, and large Democratic majorities in both chambers, would the final bill reflect the
wishesdemands of these six? Because Mike Ross intends to help make it happen.The Blue Dog added:
"I can tell you, I've laid down my set of principles, so I will not force government-run health care on anyone. If there ever is government-run health care, the first ones to sign up should be the president and every member of Congress, including myself. You should be able to keep the insurance you've got today, if you like it, and always choose your own doctor. No federal funding for illegal immigrants or for abortion, and no rationing of health care. I will never vote for a bill to kill old people, period." [emphasis added]
The leading Republican on health care walks around with Glenn Beck's book. The leading Blue Dog on health care tells a national television audience that he won't support a bill "to kill old people."
Their opinions will help guide whether we're able to reform the health care system.
FDL: Disease and Disadvantage in the United States and in England
That's the title of a study published by The Journal of the American Medical Association. The study attempted to determine whether the "considerably greater" US health expenditure of US$5274 per capita vs the UK percapita expenditure of US$ 2164 resulted in a better health outcome for Americans.
Not even slightly surprisingly it doesn't. It's bad, shockingly bad. How Bad? This bad:
The top of your American society is as unhealthy as the bottom of their British one.
The United State has a considerably greater expenditure on medical care (US $5274 per capita) than in the United Kingdom (US $2164 adjusting for purchasing power). To determine whether that expenditure translates into better health outcomes for the adult US population, data on the degree of morbidity in each country beyond the childhood years are needed.
Given the strong link between socioeconomic position and health in both countries, cross-country comparisons of morbidity should examine variation of morbidity according to comparable measures of socioeconomic position. Cross-country comparison of social differences in illness provides some insight into potential causal explanations. Access to health care is a particular case in point. Although publicly funded health care is available in both countries to citizens older than 65 years, the UK National Health Service has no age criterion for eligibility. Thus, British households are more isolated from any financial impacts of out-of-pocket medical expenses. A similar argument applies to earnings and job losses, for which the more generous UK income maintenance system should mitigate any effects of health changes on income and wealth there compared with what is available in the United States.
[snip]
US residents are much less healthy than their English counterparts and these differences exist at all points of the SES distribution ... The US population in late middle age is less healthy than the equivalent British population for diabetes, hypertension, heart disease, myocardial infarction, stroke, lung disease, and cancer ... These differences are not solely driven by the bottom of the SES distribution. In many diseases, the top of the SES distribution is less healthy in the United States as well.
[snip]
Oh but please don't stop there it gets better …
With the sole exception of cancer, there exists a sharp negative gradient across both education and income groups in both countries ... As a result, country differences are larger and tend to be more statistically different at the bottom of the social hierarchy than at the top. Level differences between countries are sufficiently large that individuals in the top of the education and income strata in the United States have comparable rates of diabetes and heart disease as those in the bottom of the income and education strata in England."
There's lot more very useful ammunition for the discerning firepup where that came from …
Source: Disease and Disadvantage in the United States and in England [PDF] published 2006 The Journal of the American Medical Association.
The thing that leaps out from the pages of the study isn't just that the desperately underfunded and understaffed NHS outperforms the American health sector on most health outcomes although that is made eminently clear. No, what leaps from the pages is the way in which the American system betrays the overwhelming majority of the American population in the interests of making profits. The ever increasingly bizarre campaign to persuade Americans to keep their current rates of death, misery, and despair is being waged by a pack of parasites interested in one thing and one thing only. Money.
A health system that puts profit before patients as the current private enterprise system in the US does is not in fact a health system — it's economic sociopathy gone berserk.
markfromireland
Benen: FUNNY THINGS HAPPEN WHEN YOU CREATE A MONSTER...
As a rule, Republican leaders are delighted to see angry right-wing activists mobilizing in opposition to health care reform. Top GOP officials haven't been joining the angry mob-like protests, but they have been egging their base on, and looking the other way when conservatives go too far (death threats, swastikas, nooses, etc.).
As pleased as the party is to have the mobilizing right-wing support, there is an unexpected dilemma for Republicans: an enraged monster can be unpredictable, and can even turn in unhelpful directions.
Conservatives are calling it their August Revolt -- a surprising upsurge of activism against President Obama's proposed healthcare overhaul.
Spurred on by the success of their efforts to dominate the news at Democratic town hall meetings, conservative groups are reporting increases in membership lists and are joining forces to plan at least one mass demonstration in Washington next month.
But the conservative mobilization has also created an unusual dilemma for Republican leaders, who want to turn the enthusiasm into election victories next year but find themselves the target of ire from many of the same activists.
It seems some far-right lawmakers aren't far-right enough for the mob. Sen. John Cornyn (R) of Texas was booed by the Tea Baggers. Rep. Bob Inglis (R) of South Carolina was shouted down for mild criticism of Glenn Beck. Rep. John Sullivan (R) of Oklahoma was chastised by his constituents this week for not working harder to investigate the president's place of birth.
Inglis, who is by no reasonable measure a moderate, noted that "hostility went straight through to hysteria" at town-hall meetings. Noting that the activists are driven by bogus arguments that are obviously wrong, Inglis added, "You cannot build a movement on something that is not credible."
Well, they can try. Inglis now faces a primary challenger from the even-further-right-wing contingent of the GOP.
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